Zombie Wells Are Waking Up

Hawk Dunlap00:00

And I've been saying it for the last few years, there's whales in Texas that God doesn't know about. And back in the day,

Folks would drag a rig out and they drill a hole and if they didn't hit, they just get the rig over and drill another one.

Peter Brecht00:16

All right, welcome to the Local Energy Podcast. My name's Peter, I'm here with Wade Spear and our guest today, got Hawk Dumlap and Les Skinner. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on, happy to have you.

Hawk Dunlap00:26

Thank you for having us.

Les00:26

Thanks Peter.

Peter Brecht00:27

Yeah, this is exciting. Hawk, you've been moving and grooving out there, man. You're busy, you got a lot going on. We talked about Zombie Wells on one of our last podcasts and lo and behold, you had some thoughts. So here we are and we're excited to get this out. It'll go out tomorrow actually. So everyone's gonna get kind of a quick release of this conversation, but I'll kind of let you get us started. Tell us about Zombie Wells, man.

Hawk Dunlap00:50

Well,

First and foremost, Les is the one that coined the term zombie wells.

And that's kind of gotten to be mainstream over the last few years. And I had often wondered where the name came from and lo and behold, it Les put the name in one of his books that he's written. That's the origin of the name, but basically a zombie well is a well that's been plugged previously that's returned to life, if you will, and started flowing again.

And we are seeing more and more of these happen not just here in Texas but all across the nation. California most recently, Newport was in the news, but these are wells that had been previously plugged and it started flowing again. A lot of the time it kind of based on several different factors. For us out here in West Texas, it's...

The over-injection of produced water. In Texas alone, we're injecting the new data that I have is 30 million barrels a day is being injected into the ground. So here in the central basin platform, you've got wells that were, more, that were drilled in the fifties, plugged anywhere from, the sixties to the nineties. And then we've added all this abnormal pressure and it had

Have either caused these plugs to fail or they weren't plugged properly in the first place. Hence that's where the zombie well phenomenon starts. And I have to make a distinction between, there's a lot of talk about orphan wells and zombie wells and two different classifications.

Wade02:17

Right.

Hawk Dunlap02:22

Just for clarification, an orphan well is a well that has been abandoned and there's no operator associated with that well. And here in Texas, they become a ward of the state.

Peter Brecht02:32

Les first time I've met you before but you wrote books about this topic. I guess I'm curious How did you kind of come up with the name? I mean were you watching a movie and you're like, that's it We're gonna call it a zombie well Or is there more to this give us a little bit of your backstory and kind of what you've done in the past and written

Les02:48

Well, I'm an engineer. I've worked in the oil field for 53 years and I'll be 54 next year. But I grew up in the oil field. More especially, I grew up in a company town in the Texas Panhandle where wells were drilled just all over the place. One of those wells happened to be in the alley

Wade03:08

Thank

Les03:13

Directly behind my house. Was probably 25 feet away from our house. And there was a perpetual patch of dead grass out in the middle of this alley. And we never knew what it was. Finally, my father told me that that was where an old well had been drilled, but it wasn't plugged properly. And natural gas was coming out of the well, and it was killing the grass.

So bright kid that I am, I dug it up. I thought I'd try to find the old well and see what was going on. Of course, I never found the well, but I had a pretty good hole in the ground and my older brother came by and he said, well, I can smell the gas coming out of there. I wonder if it'll burn. Sure enough, he threw a match in and it caught on fire. So we kind of started talking about that old zombie that was out in the alley. And in

Wade03:52

Haha

Peter Brecht03:55

Thank

Les04:00

In I wrote a book on well integrity that dealt with workovers and re-entries. And I used that term in the book, zombie well being an old dead well that had come back to life. And the name seemed to stick. So...

We've been using it now for the last five years or so with the notion that it's a pretty good descriptor of what happens to one of these wells. They're plugged, they seem to be completely dead, and then because of barrier deterioration, they begin to leak. Now, Hawk mentioned, and he's absolutely right, that these wells are starting to leak at the surface. But the problem is they can also leak down hole.

Between intervals from one interval to another and that is probably as serious a problem as we have with the surface leaks and it's pretty widespread from what we've seen and that's going to continue in time as these barrier systems that were originally installed continue to deteriorate.

Peter Brecht04:41

Mm.

Wade05:11

So do you have an idea of kind of what the scope of the problem is? I don't even know how many wells there are in Texas. There's gotta be a huge, huge number. I we gotta be talking hundreds of thousands, right? Do we have an idea of what kind of percentage of these wells you'd kind of classify as zombie wells,

Les05:24

No, Wade, and the problem is we are just now beginning to identify where the zombies are. And the reason is they're coming to the surface and we can spot them. We have no idea how many of those wells are leaking down whole. There are currently about 2 million orphaned wells in Texas. Now, if you just look at that number...

Wade05:33

Right.

Les05:45

And say, well, how many old plugged wells are actually leaking somewhere? We're probably in the same number range, but it's just a guess since we really haven't done a statewide survey on the number of leaking wells that may exist.

Wade06:02

I guess.

Hawk Dunlap06:03

And I've been saying it for the last few years, there's whales in Texas that God doesn't know about. And back in the day,

Folks would drag a rig out and they drill a hole and if they didn't hit, they just get the rig over and drill another one.

And they wouldn't file for a permit or anything like that. I've tripped over eight and five eights at surface and, there's no record. You can dig and dig and dig in the archives. We've had people in the archives down in Austin and looking for records for this and there's nothing. And I was fortunate enough to meet a man in

Wade06:23

Right.

Hawk Dunlap06:38

Crane

Who was, had actually worked around here his whole life. And he's the one, told me the story. Said, oh yeah, I said, we'd drill a well if it hit, we'd send somebody down to Austin and get a permit. And then, if it didn't hit, we'd just move the rig and try another one. That was what they were doing back in the day.

Peter Brecht06:53

Yeah.

Hawk Dunlap06:56

It's really hard to quantify because of historic practices.

Wade07:00

What's been the response from operators whenever something like this happens? I imagine you kind of get a wide range of responses, but generally what's the response like there?

Les07:09

It's usually denial. That's the first point. It's not our will. We don't know anything about it. We don't know where it is. We don't have any records on it. They're probably telling the truth. They don't have any records on it. As Hawk just mentioned, some of these wells were drilled.

And if it turned out to be a dry hole, they just moved the rig over three, four, or five hundred feet and drilled another hole hoping to hit something and if it did, then there were some records created. On that first well, there may not be anything at all. And there's another issue and that is that states started to regulate the oil and gas industry back in the

Wade07:33

Mm-hmm.

I guess.

Peter Brecht07:42

Mm.

Les07:48

1920s, primarily to the 30s.

The last state was Indiana, it didn't start regulating wells until 1946. So that may give you an idea of the number of wells that have been drilled because the oil and gas industry in the United States goes back to before the Civil War and there are absolutely no records on some of those wells at all. There was no permitting system. There was no regulatory agency that managed them. So it's difficult to go back and say,

Wade08:01

Mm-hmm.

Les08:18

Well, we know there's a well here. No, we don't have a clue.

Wade08:22

Right. So in a case like that where there is no record and all that stuff, do you kind of consider that to be an orphaned well that is also a zombie well? Those things are kind of overlapping. Who takes responsibility for something like that if you just don't have a paper trail on it or, trail of...

Peter Brecht08:22

Hmm.

Hawk Dunlap08:38

Typically right now, in Texas, as far as Texas is concerned, it becomes onus of the Railroad Commission to take care of it, which again is based on the taxpayer.

Wade08:45

Okay.

Right.

Hawk Dunlap08:50

It's we've also had a lot of mergers and acquisitions over the decades. And you could have somebody that had had it drilled and produced a well and plug it. And then they got bought out and they got bought out and they got bought out. And you come back and the well was plugged in the fifties and it had somebody else's name on it. And you really got to run the lineage to find out, find out who exactly is.

Wade08:56

Mm-hmm.

Hawk Dunlap09:15

The current operator who would be responsible for it. So it's a lengthy process. Trying to locate them. I've met with some people that, not long ago that are into magnometers and drones and being able to detect methane emissions and things of that, trying to fly that and trying to identify, Texas is huge.

Trying to fly the whole state and try to get an accurate count and locate these things, at this point in time, even though we do have satellites that are flying over us and looking for this stuff. It's going to be a huge undertaking to be able to locate and identify and manage this problem in the future.

Wade09:44

Right.

Peter Brecht10:04

Interesting. When I'm like, this is my me being naive and not knowing a ton about like kind of how all this works logistically, but I feel like there there's oil, right? So there's got to be an economic benefit somewhere or is it just these have to be plugged and like there's nothing we can really do to recover anything this is my other thought is like, could you say okay, we've got 1010 companies have owned this well over the past decade. So we're gonna

You split the cost out over. I don't like cuz there's got to be creative solutions. I Get it. Get it. Get it. I'm but that's kind of my point is like the ones that are even responsible or bankrupt So like how do you like who do you like? Where do you pin the tail in the donkey? It just seems kind of like a it's a big mess I don't know. I got no ideas. I just got questions

Wade10:30

Eight of those companies are bankrupt, okay? Eight of those companies no longer exist.

Hawk Dunlap10:32

You

Les10:45

Well, yeah.

The primary person or entity that's responsible is the regulatory agency in the state. If ownership cannot be identified, if the owners are bankrupt, if they simply do not exist anymore, then the wellbore is considered an orphan. It doesn't have a daddy anymore. And the regulatory agency is responsible for plugging it. Now,

Peter Brecht11:00

Right.

Les11:09

That's for orphaned wells, for wells that have been plugged.

Either plugged in properly or it was plugged properly at the time, but now it's deteriorated and started leaking. The responsibility pathway is not really very clear. In some cases, it's the operator that existed prior to a certain date, like 1997, or it was somebody who will step up and voluntarily take on the replugging responsibility. And those guys are pretty rare.

And it goes back to what Wade was saying. A bunch of these guys no longer exist. The company is either defunct or it is closed up or there simply is not a revenue source available to plug these wells. And the result is we end up with the problem that Hawk has been facing out in West Texas.

Wade11:41

Mm-hmm.

Les12:01

There just isn't anybody to plug them. And that's really what complicates the issue from both an engineering and an operations standpoint.

Peter Brecht12:09

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Hawk Dunlap12:10

There's a

Few things, that, as I understand, maybe in Louisiana and offshore with Bessey, that they do spread the plugging liability amongst the operators who have actually produced the well. So on a percentage basis, so if you produce 60 % of the well, then you're on the hook for 60 % of the plugging liability and it's spread out, like you said, amongst operators.

Peter Brecht12:26

Hmm.

Okay.

Hawk Dunlap12:38

And if one operator is bankrupt and let's say we have five operators who've had their hands on the well, if one of them is bankrupt and defunct and can't be found, then it's amongst the other four. Kind of what we're facing here in Texas is the bonding is too cheap and we're gonna continue to have this problem if we don't start trying to keep our industry self-supporting.

Texas is divided up into districts as per the Railroad Commission. You know, you kind of get, you have a good idea how much, a well costs.

Per foot in each district and what the average is. And if you add that on to the drilling permit, it goes into the fund and that money stays with that API number throughout the life of the well. You start to try to avoid this in the future. That's looking forward. What we're facing right now is...

Thousands of wells that need to be plugged that end up, becoming a burden on the taxpayer. And we're going to really have to sit down and do some hard thinking on how we're going to address that so that we can get caught up. Texas has led the way, I spent 20, pretty much 27 years overseas and, Texas has always been the proving ground for new technology, as far as drilling and folks come over here to learn and the technology is proven over here and then it's exported over

Sees and makes makes the trip around the globe. Far as drilling completions and production, and we really need to incentivize changing the way that we plug these wells in the future and start leading the way in how we plug and abandon and retire these assets. And, it can be done. There's new material out there. There's new technology. There's a lot of young people that

Have some fantastic ideas of how to approach this and we need to bring them into the fold and start listening to them a little bit because, like I said, there's people out there with digital technology that I can't even, pronounce and we got to start using these young people and using their minds and helping us old guys start to address this problem working together.

Peter Brecht14:44

Are there people that that you're kind of like looking to for maybe people companies Discussion groups that maybe you've kind of gravitated towards and being like hey, they've got some good ideas or is this still where there's still there's not really defined direction yet or there are groups that are talking about this maybe more at length and obviously, you're going through the paces of bringing it to everyone's attention to but

Are there other places that we could kind of learn maybe all sides of this discussion?

Les15:11

Yeah, there has been a good deal of work done and various aspects of technology for plugging these poor things. There's been a lot of recent improvements in cementing, for example, both cement types and placement of the cement. And that is valuable technology. And so we're constantly keeping our eyes open for new products, new procedures, people who can actually plug wells.

Peter Brecht15:19

Hmm?

Les15:37

There are number of folks out there that believe that they can plug wells and they simply follow the old standards, the old way of doing things and they're trying to use the excuse that they're using tried and true technology. Well, it's been tried but it certainly isn't very true and otherwise the wells wouldn't be leaking.

That is one of the issues that we have with many of the regulatory agencies. They simply haven't kept up with new technology. And as a result, will, an operator for example, that's trying to plug a well, will submit a permit. And it uses the same old tired technology that's been used and failed in the past.

And the Railroad Commission or the OCC or the NMOCC or whatever the regulatory agency is, simply rubber stamps it and says, yeah, go ahead and do it. That sounds fine to us. Without really digging into the fact that this well was properly plugged using the state of the art at the time, the materials at the time, the regulations at the time, and now it's leaking. Well, obviously, the old tried and true technology didn't work.

Hawk Dunlap16:47

I'm being a bit facetious here and kind of making a joke, we all know that the cement companies have a lab and in the lab.

Wade16:48

Thank

Hawk Dunlap16:55

There's a mad scientist and I picture him in a white jacket and with poor rim glasses and he's always designing something and there's lightning and sparks and everything else and he's always coming up with something better and they do and they keep them locked up in the laboratory and we have an opportunity to be able to try some of new techniques

And start using them. I've got a landowner out here with over 200 orphan wells on his place and you know there's not a better laboratory to start trying new cement.

And you know new things like polymers and you know epoxies and have a you know 200 plus orphan well laboratory it's not like we're ever going to bring these wells back you know there there's everything imaginable in these wells where there's you know there's holes in casing there's fish there's all kind of things that that you know the industry is going to face all the time and there's not a better place to have a laboratory and start trying to use some of these new techniques and materials and get some stuff proven up and start doing a better job

Peter Brecht17:45

Thanks.

Hawk Dunlap18:02

I've said it before, I've had a basically a cadaver farm of wells that were plugged from the late 60s all the way up to 2023. And we've proven that the current material that we're using right now is not a long term solution for asset retirement. And we really need to start looking forward and start getting with these little mad scientists and say, okay, what do you got for me? And let's try it and see how it goes. If it does,

Doesn't work and it fails, we'll just drill it out and we'll try something else. And that's the only, this is the oil field. We've tried and failed and tried and failed. Oh, this works and let's try and see if it works again. Oh, it works two or three times. Okay, great. We got something new. And that's kind of the way we need to approach PNA.

Les18:47

To support what Hawk is saying there is that our knowledge of cement technology goes back a couple of thousand years. The Romans actually used volcanic fly ash mixed with quicklime.

And they made all kinds of port facilities in the Aegean Sea. Those still exist. And one of the reasons they exist is they also mixed in a little bit of calcium carbonate or limestone into that cement so that when the seawater invaded the body of the cement through cracks or pores or whatever else,

It created a calcium carbonate seal to those cracks. In other words, the cement was self-healing. We have that same technology. We've had it all along. But we're still using cements that were actually in existence for some time.

But we didn't even have a classification program from API until 1953 on cement. So right now we have old cements and old technology that is acceptable, but we have so much new technology it's hard to keep up with.

Wade19:53

I think that's kind of where some of my questioning goes on that is, if the old methods are, obviously not holding up over time and we're wanting to try new methods. I mean, it feels like some of the iteration process there could be decades, you know? And so like, could we actually be making the process worse by trying some what I'd say is untested solutions? Now, I love what you're saying there about, having some experience and things like that with cement standardization and what we're seeing here. And so...

Peter Brecht19:53

Mm.

Wade20:22

It's really interesting to me on that. Guess one of questions I had was in terms of the regulatory effect of it. Do you feel like what they're requiring now in terms of like number of barriers and all that thing is sufficient? It's just maybe not the details or the type of cement that's really up to muster or what is it there?

Les20:40

Well, the regulatory agencies are, they're pretty well steeped in tradition. What was used two years ago is gonna be good enough. What was used 10 years ago has got to be good enough. And it goes back to the notion that sometimes the people in the regulatory agencies are very insightful. They understand that there are new products, but

The policies and procedures that they use are still those that were used 20 years ago. There was a report written by the National Science Foundation back in 1976.

And basically, one of the things they noted was that a lot of the cement materials that we're using are the same ones we were using back in the early 20s. And in another report, they said, they concluded that basically we're plugging wells today the same way we did 100 years ago. So we haven't really kept up not only with the need, but with technology associated with either the number of barriers, number of plugs, or the type of plugs.

Peter Brecht21:29

Mm.

Les21:40

And the placement techniques have not kept up with current technology. When we talk about setting plugs in wells, for the most part it was setting a plug inside the casing. Well, if problem's on the outside of the casing, that plug on the inside of the pipe isn't going to do the whole

Peter Brecht21:57

When with you know is the RCC Saying like you can only use this material or this process. I mean is it that granular to where? You know that's all been predefined or is it like look. We're just gonna whatever comes across our desk We're gonna stamp it doesn't matter what tech you guys I'm sure it's got to be pretty detail oriented in terms of how it is But I mean are they requiring the old way to be the way to do this or?

Is there room for discussion on just like the materials used, right? I mean, is that allowed?

Hawk Dunlap22:25

It's a...

From my experience, it's been that we've been doing the same thing, in the past and we're going to continue to do the same thing. I know some people have tried some different cement blends and had to get approval and had to wait two weeks for approval. It's bureaucracy and we're not going to move forward unless we eliminate that and start, thinking a little bit broader and

And moving a little bit quicker on this thing. Because like Mr. said, we've been doing the same thing for decades and nothing's really changed. And we've really got to get over that hump and start focusing on the little mad scientist in the lab. He messes with it every day and he needs a place to try it out and prove it.

With all the orphan wells we've got, we don't have anything to lose. And a lot of the people that I've spoken to over the past year or so, they'll provide it for free with no cost to the state, but the state hasn't been able to get them approved. If they can't approve to use it, then how can we get it approved to use in the future?

Peter Brecht23:31

The other thing I'm thinking about too, so I'm out in California and I sat down with an operator out here probably four or five months ago And we're still okay. Are we gonna ever get any well permits, right? You know, well lo and behold, you know CalGEM grants us 2,000 well permits for next year Everyone's wondering. Okay, where the heck are we gonna find people now to go actually, you know do this and we'll figure it out I mean, it's not a crazy number of well permits. I think you guys do that every hour but

My thing is going back to people. It's like who's going to train everyone to actually go through this and do it because if the problem is that big, you're going to need more people that are specialized or exclusively do this kind of thing, on a daily basis. Or maybe that's incorrect. But I mean, where are people going to get trained for this if it's that big of a thing we need to attack?

Les24:17

I think the answer to that is that we're going to have younger people, as Hawk has already mentioned, come in that can bring some fresh new ideas. In the past 10 years, there's been about a 60 % loss of oil industry professionals. And it's primarily because most of them have retired or died off.

Every time one of them retires and goes fishing for the remainder of his life, that body of corporate knowledge is lost. So the people who have actually developed the technologies for adequately plugging wells continually declines. That number declines every year. And you're right, there are no mentors for the young guys. So...

They look back at some old well file and well, here's the way we plugged it back then. So through the use of Xerox engineering, they just copy it and we do it again. There's the new stuff simply is not attempted.

Peter Brecht25:14

Okay. Okay.

Hawk Dunlap25:14

Yeah, I

Was I was fortunate enough to come up with,

People like Mr. Less and, take me under their wing and train me and yell at me and cuss me, and everything. But, I got a great education and I think my generation and I'm not speaking for everybody, but, I can see back through my career where, I probably should have spent a little bit more time with some young folks and been a little bit more patient and, kind of shown them around.

And done a little bit better job of teaching. I mean, we train our people every day. The training industry makes millions every year, but we're not really teaching the guys that are coming up behind us. And I'm a little bit to blame for that.

I realize that I'm coming to the end where I'm starting to look like I want to go fishing for the rest of my life. And there's going to have to be some young folks come underneath me and I'm going to have to show them the ropes so I can exit and leave things in good hands.

Peter Brecht26:10

I love it. Wade, any other questions that you got that are kind of burning?

Wade26:13

Yeah, being from Oklahoma, I don't get wrapped up tons and a lot of the Texas stuff going on. Dealt with the Corporation Commission a few times out in the Granite Wash in East Texas, but kind of behind the zombie well topic. Is there is there something else there that's kind of a big a big focus for this upcoming kind of group of commissioners?

Hawk Dunlap26:36

Well, it's, for me personally and statewide, and like I said earlier, we're, injecting 30 million barrels a day, in the ground in Texas. And the technology is there to, recycle and repurpose this water. And these older well bores, they just, can't stand the pressure. The well designs were never, the wells were never designed to handle this added pressure to them. And, you start adding pressure to it, of course they're gonna fail and they're gonna start flowing. The immediate need right now is to get everybody off high center and start getting some of this water produced and making the data centers use recycled produce water. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna water my tomato plants with it, but I don't think we're there yet. I think getting industry offer or groundwater and

Wade27:21

Hmm.

Peter Brecht27:23

Yeah.

Hawk Dunlap27:27

Start putting this produced water to good use. And, of course it has its pros and cons as well, but the biggest pro right now is if we're recycling the water and we're not injecting it, we're not running the risk of polluting our groundwater and, re-entering one of these wells that were plugged, 50 years ago, it's not cheap. So, it's an added cost on the operator to have to go back and an added cost on the

If they have to go back into these wells and replug them. So the easiest thing, or I shouldn't say easy, but the simplest thing to do right now is let's get our injection under control and let's start doing something else with that fluid and try to alleviate some of these burden on some of these old wells in the ground.

Peter Brecht28:09

Alright.

Les28:09

Yeah,

Incidentally, there's a number of organizations and even the geologists are now recognizing that there may be a use for some of these old wells, either the orphaned or the zombie wells, for some other purpose, such as...

Carbon dioxide storage or hydrogen storage or some other purpose. The problem is the integrity that remains in the old well bore simply is not gonna support that very well. There is a large target out there of wells that could be reused and reused or refurbished at a cost.

But that cost is probably considerably less than re-drilling a new well bore to replace it. So for example, if you have a well bore that's of sufficient diameter and you want to go for a deeper horizon, you might well be able to use one of these zombie wells and repair it in such a way by either...

Using some technique like cement squeezing or running a new string of casing inside the old one and then reuse that well bore for some purpose. But it's going to take not only industry, but it's going to take a change in regulatory attitude before we're able to really make a dent in that number. It's far easier to plug one of these things and hope that it remains dead.

For the next thousand years, then it is to re-drill it or re-enter it. And it's gonna take a change in attitude across the board before that's gonna happen.

Peter Brecht29:41

Gotcha. Well, guys, we're coming up on our time here. I'm just still so thankful that I was able to have you guys on to come on and talk. I'm gonna have to pick up your book. I know that for a fact now after talking to you. Just constantly being a sponge, but give us a hand off, guys. Where can people find you and how can we connect and support what you're doing?

Hawk Dunlap29:59

Well, I'm all over social media at Hawk Dunlap. I'm on all of all the platforms and reach out. I tried to handle my social media myself and I really tried to be active with that. Figure if you if you've got enough time to type me a message or make a comment, then I need to take the time to try to at least like it or try to try to get back with you. So I'm pretty easy to find and I'll be pretty much come January 2nd till the primary and March 3rd. Running for

Railroad commission, I'll be all over the state and in the truck. You know, I love it when people come up and say hi or want to take a picture of was that Sam's buying topo Chico's and then I get home and I get a message from a guy on TikTok. Hey man, I saw you in Sam's. I said, why don't you come over and say hi and help me load these topo Chico's and boxes are heavy. Well, I didn't want to mess with you. Was afraid you might have said no, no, no, come help. I need all the help I can get. So no more than happy to speak with.

Peter Brecht30:51

Yeah.

Hawk Dunlap30:53

And I really appreciate all the support that I've gotten this far.

Les30:56

Yeah, and I'm also available on social media as well. So if you look for me on LinkedIn or Facebook, you're going to find me. And if you can't get hold of me directly, you can always call Hawk, and he knows how to get in touch with me most of the time.

Peter Brecht30:56

Awesome.

Hawk Dunlap31:07

You

Peter Brecht31:09

I love it. Well guys, thank you so much for being with us. Guys, yeah, this has been great. We'll have this out tomorrow. Everyone that's listening, please look up Hawk, look up Les. Check us out at localenergy.com and we will see you again next week.

Wade31:10

Alright.